Four Million Ukrainians in Limbo
We follow Iryna, one of those scrambling to find refuge after the Russian invasion.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Can I pay you a card or cash? Either?

Taxi Driver

Cash —

Clare Toeniskoetter

Cash is better? OK.

Speaker

[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Taxi Driver

A moment, moment.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Oh, I’m coming out.

Taxi Driver

Moment. Moment. [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Clare Toeniskoetter

Thank you very much.

[Crowd Yelling Indistinctly]

Clare Toeniskoetter

I’ve just arrived at the border, and as soon as my taxi pulled up, people were trying to hire the taxi. And a family got in — a grandma, a mom and her two kids. One was maybe eight or nine, and then a very little baby that she was carrying in her arms.

They loaded a stroller into the trunk and drove off. And I’m just off the main road, and there’s just a huge crowd. So many women and children.

[Baby Screaming]

Clare Toeniskoetter

From The New York Times, this is The Daily. I’m Clare Toeniskoetter. When I first arrived at the Polish border, it was just days after Russia had begun its full-scale assault on Ukraine.

There’s just constantly people streaming in with roller bags, with backpacks, with cats, with dogs, with giant stuffed animals. At that point, there were about 100,000 Ukrainians crossing into Poland each day.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Where are you going?

Speaker

Polish friends.

Clare Toeniskoetter

You have Polish friends?

Speaker

Polish friends.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And most of the people I spoke to had plans and knew where they were headed —

Clare Toeniskoetter

Why do you go to Germany?

Speaker

I have a friend there.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— to stay with friends or family —

Speaker

I have an elder daughter. She lives in Finland. And a friend of her will just arrive and will pick us to travel to Finland together with the dogs.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— for what they thought would be just a few days or weeks, until the situation resolved.

Speaker

We hope it’s going to be over soon.

Clare Toeniskoetter

But over the course of just a couple of days, as the war progressed, I watched the scene transform into the largest wave of refugees in Europe since World War II. 10 million Ukrainians, about 1/4 of the country’s population, have now been displaced, and almost 4 million have fled the country.

Poland had opened its borders, and like other countries in the E.U., had announced that Ukrainians could live and work there for up to three years. But at that point, they hadn’t organized formal assistance. Instead, I found an impromptu volunteer network —

Speaker 1

Yes, so we are offering free SIM cards for people from Ukraine.

Speaker 2

We have spaghetti. We have sweets. We have everything. [CHUCKLES]

Clare Toeniskoetter

— of people from all across Europe coming to the border.

Speaker 3

We brought toys and sweets, you know, something good for the kids.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— offering food —

Clare Toeniskoetter

Tell me what your sign says.

Speaker

Free room in Germany, one person.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— supplies —

Speaker

Free transport and free house, to Sweden.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— transportation —

Speaker

Let’s go to Luxembourg.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— and housing.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She doesn’t know where she’s going at all in Europe?

Speaker 1

No.

Speaker 2

No. No.

Clare Toeniskoetter

OK. Good luck.

Clare Toeniskoetter

To Ukrainians who now had no idea how long the war would last, or what they would do next.

Over the next three weeks, I followed one of these women as she began to face those questions.

It’s Monday, March 28.

 

Clare Toeniskoetter

OK, I think I’m walking up.

Clare Toeniskoetter

After leaving the border, I traveled three hours west to Krakow, Poland’s second-biggest city. And I headed to an apartment not far from the center of town —

[Beep]

Sven

Hello.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Hi.

Sven

Hello, Clare.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Hi, Sven.

Sven

Come up to the fifth floor, yeah?

Clare Toeniskoetter

Fifth floor, great.

Sven

OK.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— where Sven Hoffmann, a 43-year-old German man, lives with his fiancee.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Hi.

Gosia

I’m Gosia. Nice to meet you.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Clare. Nice to meet you. Gosia?

Gosia

Gosia.

Clare Toeniskoetter

A Polish woman, named Gosia. I had first met Sven at the border. And he and Gosia had recently taken in a Ukrainian refugee and her 11-year-old son.

Iryna Baramidze

This is my son, Yuri.

[INTERPOSING VOICES]

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna and Yuri Baramidze, who were among the early wave of refugees to arrive in Poland. They both have round faces and big smiles.

We all gather around the kitchen table, and Iryna starts telling me the story of what her life was like just a few weeks ago.

Iryna Baramidze

23, February, we make homework. We have some plan. 26, February, I must go to ballet with my son.

Clare Toeniskoetter

The ballet?

Iryna Baramidze

Yes, it was normal life.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yeah.

Iryna Baramidze

Because we’re normal people.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She said that before the war started, her life was predictable.

Iryna Baramidze

Well, my life — I live in Kyiv all my life.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She’s from a middle-class neighborhood in Kyiv.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Tell me about your husband.

Iryna Baramidze

So my husband’s from Georgia.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She’d been with her husband, Alexi, for 12 years.

Clare Toeniskoetter

How did you meet?

Iryna Baramidze

We met in internet. He sent me a message.

Clare Toeniskoetter

They got married and had Yuri.

Clare Toeniskoetter

What kind of work do you do?

Iryna Baramidze

I work in a transport company.

Clare Toeniskoetter

They both worked at a big company that dispatches tow trucks, taxis and cargo trucks. Iryna was a supervisor in their call center —

Iryna Baramidze

He’s a lock master.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— and her husband was an automotive locksmith. They bought an apartment, and Iryna’s mom moved in.

Iryna Baramidze

Yuri very want — he said, mama, buy me, please, a dog.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And until recently, one of their most pressing decisions was whether to adopt a dog for Yuri.

Iryna Baramidze

OK. We find — I find a shelter.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yuri was sure he was ready. So Iryna started taking him to a shelter to see the responsibility of walking a dog.

Iryna Baramidze

We come morning, in evening, some days like five days. And after this, he would say to me, OK, I don’t want dog.

Yuri Baramidze

[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Clare Toeniskoetter

Turns out he wasn’t so sure.

Yuri Baramidze

[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Clare Toeniskoetter

You like to sleep in.

Iryna Baramidze

Yes.

Clare Toeniskoetter

He’d rather sleep and watch YouTube videos about trains, Chernobyl and World War II — his three favorite things.

Iryna Baramidze

We were together — relax, speak together, eat together.

And after this— we’re not together.

Clare Toeniskoetter

On February 24, the whole family woke up to the sounds of bombs in Kyiv. They spent two nights sleeping at Yuri’s school in the basement.

Iryna Baramidze

Every night, they start to bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And then, the next two nights, sleeping in the bathroom and the hallway of their apartment. And on the fifth morning —

Iryna Baramidze

I wake up, and I think I can’t move, really.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Right.

Iryna Baramidze

I can’t move.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna decided she couldn’t stay. She tried to convince the rest of her family to join her.

Iryna Baramidze

He says, oh, we’re OK. Not nervous.

Clare Toeniskoetter

But her husband was convinced the war would only last a few more days.

Yuri Baramidze

[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Clare Toeniskoetter

Even Yuri wasn’t scared. He trusted that the army would protect his family. But the feeling in Iryna’s gut wouldn’t go away.

Iryna Baramidze

I call and ask, do you have some driver who can take me and my son and go to the train station?

Clare Toeniskoetter

She called a taxi to take her and Yuri to the train station.

Iryna Baramidze

She told me, I have one.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And they told her they had just one available in 20 minutes.

Iryna Baramidze

My son’s asleep. He wakes up. I take some clothes for my son, documents, money, and go.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She couldn’t even tell her mother, who was out at the pharmacy. But she said goodbye to her husband.

Clare Toeniskoetter

What did you say to him?

Iryna Baramidze

Of course I tell him I love him, and we will meet. [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Speaker

It’s OK.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And she headed to the train station.

Iryna Baramidze

And after this, I go to Lublin.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Lublin? OK.

Iryna Baramidze

Lublin city in Poland.

Clare Toeniskoetter

OK.

Iryna Baramidze

Yes.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Were you trying to go to Poland?

Iryna Baramidze

For me, it was — it’s OK, now Poland another country —

Clare Toeniskoetter

West?

Iryna Baramidze

Yes, yes. Only, I must go to from Kyiv.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She says it was a 10-hour train ride from Kyiv to Kovel, a Ukrainian city near the border. And as they’re on their way, she’s aware that she doesn’t know anyone in the E.U. She’s only traveled there once before, to Latvia.

Iryna Baramidze

I understand I’m alone. I don’t have some people near me. But I’m strong. It will be OK, and I believe it will be OK. I’m optimist.

Clare Toeniskoetter

But on the train, she learned that Yuri’s fifth-grade teacher had recently fled to Poland. It was her best option.

Iryna Baramidze

So I call Yuri’s teacher, and she says to me that she’s now in Poland, in Krakow. And I say, oh, I now go to Poland, too. Maybe you can help me.

Clare Toeniskoetter

The teacher started making calls.

Iryna Baramidze

Yes.

Clare Toeniskoetter

So you call the teacher. The teacher calls a friend.

Iryna Baramidze

Mm-hmm.

Clare Toeniskoetter

The friend is —

Clare Toeniskoetter

And eventually, word got to go to Gosia’s aunt, who called Gosia and Sven. And they agreed to let Iryna and Yuri stay with them for a few days, maybe even a few weeks.

Iryna Baramidze

I’m very nervous who this family, who takes me and Yuri.

Clare Toeniskoetter

But they were still complete strangers, and Iryna wondered, what was she bringing in her son into?

Iryna Baramidze

I don’t understand. The first message, it was in English.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And on the final leg of the journey, she got a series of text messages from an unknown sender, and the last one was in Russian.

Iryna Baramidze

I don’t understand who sent me Russian message, who knows that I come to Poland.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Right. And you’re scared because it’s Russian?

Iryna Baramidze

Yes, yes. Why scared? Because maybe some people know my number, and these people know the route. Maybe they want to take my money. But you understand, I’m in the country, and I don’t know anyway.

Clare Toeniskoetter

It turns out the text was from Gosia, who was just trying to find the best language to communicate with Iryna. And when Iryna arrived at the train station in Krakow —

Iryna Baramidze

I see that man and woman go like this.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She saw Gosia and Sven waving.

Iryna Baramidze

So I see it’s normal people, good people, smile people. Yes.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And she says, she relaxed a little.

 

She spent her first few days with Sven and Gosia trying to sort out the logistics of her new life.

Iryna Baramidze

It’s first day — we go to administration, ask about me, what I must do, how long I can stay in Poland. If I be like immigration, yes.

Clare Toeniskoetter

First, on Thursday, she went to the Polish department for foreigners. She learned that unlike refugees in the past, who had to declare their refugee status immediately after arriving in Poland, she had time. At this point, she had 15 days, and Poland later changed this to 90 days.

Or, she could leave Poland and register to stay in another country — something else that previous refugees didn’t get the chance to do. Every country in the E.U. was now allowing Ukrainian refugees to apply for asylum. So next, she started exploring where she wanted to go.

Iryna Baramidze

Next day, we see when we go to embassy, U.S.A., maybe I can go to my friend.

Clare Toeniskoetter

One of her closest friends from childhood lives in Nevada, but she learned that unlike Europe, the U.S. hadn’t changed its policies towards Ukrainian refugees caught in the war. They’ve since updated that policy and announced that they’ll allow up to 100,000 Ukrainians in.

Iryna Baramidze

— and to Sven call an embassy Germany, because maybe we go in Germany.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Sven encouraged Iryna to look into Germany, his home country, where he thinks she could get a better job and have a better standard of living. She was considering it.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And do you think you’ll work here?

Iryna Baramidze

Yes, yes, I work, of course. I don’t have something like books, where all time I will have money. I don’t have this —

Clare Toeniskoetter

Her main criteria in making her decision, she says, was a job, health insurance for her son and housing she could afford.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Is your husband still working right now?

Iryna Baramidze

No. Company not working now.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yeah. So he needs you to work here to help provide for him there.

Iryna Baramidze

Yes, yes. Now, price in the Ukraine high. Before war, one packet milk, price was like $1. Now, it’s like $2.

Clare Toeniskoetter

So there’s extra pressure for you to get a job quickly.

Iryna Baramidze

Yes. Anyway, I’m not afraid to work. I can do all. I can work in hotel, some restaurant. I don’t know. Any way, I can do all.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna tells me she only had about a month’s worth of money saved up. So the clock was ticking. But in order to find a job, she needed to register somewhere in the E.U. And to register, she needed to pick a place to live.

Iryna Baramidze

I don’t know. I don’t know. How I know?

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yeah.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Part of what’s complicated, part of what’s making it hard for Iryna to make a decision, is that she still believes that ultimately, even if it’s turning out to be a bit longer than she originally hoped, she’s just waiting to go back to the country she knows she wants to live in.

Iryna Baramidze

I hope —

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yeah.

Iryna Baramidze

— maybe it’s some months, maybe some years. I don’t understand now nothing. I don’t understand.

When our war is finished, I will go to home. If I can, of course.

 

 

 

 

Sven

All right. So we’re going here, straight left, and then we are passing your hotel.

Clare Toeniskoetter

OK.

Sven

And then, we’re going to the —

Clare Toeniskoetter

The bank.

Sven

To the bank.

Clare Toeniskoetter

The next morning, Monday, I go with Iryna, Yuri and Sven to the bank, B.N.P. — a bank that Iryna uses in Ukraine.

Iryna Baramidze

Stay money at home.

Sven

But you want to take it. But we don’t know if it’s possible now. So first, we have to ask, and then it’s not far.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna had been traveling with some emergency cash in hryvnia, Ukraine’s currency.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Talking with the bank.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Now that she was safely in Poland, she was hoping to deposit the money back into her account.

Iryna Baramidze

[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Clare Toeniskoetter

But she learns that even though this is the same bank she uses in Ukraine, they operate independently, so she can’t access her account here. And even if she opens a new account, they won’t deposit Ukrainian money.

Iryna Baramidze

My money from Ukraine, it’s nothing now. OK.

Clare Toeniskoetter

So she’ll have to exchange it.

Iryna Baramidze

OK, I’ll take my money and find someone that can kantor, exchange.

Sven

But the rate is not so good, of course.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Right.

Clare Toeniskoetter

But the exchange rate has plunged since the war started. She says that when she left, what she was carrying was worth $400. But when she tries to exchange it later in the day, she learns it’s only worth $60.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And have you already been together to this camp?

Speaker

No, no, first time.

Clare Toeniskoetter

So you haven’t been here.

Clare Toeniskoetter

The same day, we go to a refugee center in Krakow that’s been set up in a local sports hall. Sven is hoping that Yuri can meet some kids his age there and that Iryna might be able to get guidance on some of her questions from the volunteers who are helping run the camp.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And this is where we are going?

Sven

Yeah, yeah. You see it from —

Clare Toeniskoetter

We walk in, but I have to turn off my microphone until I get approval to record from the refugee camp’s coordinator. We go upstairs to talk to him, to a cafe and concession stand area overlooking a big basketball court that’s covered with about 200 fold-out beds.

Looking over all the people, Iryna starts to cry. She hugs Yuri, and turns to Sven and quietly thanks him. She says she’s grateful to be in a real home instead of a shelter.

Coordinator

[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH] Recording?

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yes, yes, if that’s OK.

Clare Toeniskoetter

The coordinator gives me approval to record, and we talk to some other refugees there while Yuri plays games on Iryna’s phone. And even though she doesn’t know her own plan yet, Iryna tries to help them.

Hanna

We want to come in Germany.

Clare Toeniskoetter

One woman, a pianist named Hanna, who performed in the Kharkiv Philharmonic, is thinking about taking her son to Germany. But she’s worried about going to Germany, applying for asylum, and then not finding a job and being stuck and unable to find work in another E.U. country.

Iryna Baramidze

Sven, I’m sorry. Can you maybe call Embassy Germany and ask some —

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna asks Sven to call the German embassy to see if those rules will apply to Ukrainians.

Sven

They don’t know yet today. On Monday, on Wednesday, there will be —

Clare Toeniskoetter

And they tell him they need a few more days to figure that out.

Sven

So the best is you have to wait till Wednesday, unfortunately, here, for maybe —

Clare Toeniskoetter

So for now, Hannah and her son were stuck. Hannah messaged me later with a video of her playing piano and said, I really hope my piano wasn’t blown up.

 

Clare Toeniskoetter

What is all this?

At the shelter, we also come across a makeshift job board of handwritten notes in Russian and Ukrainian taped to a wall.

Iryna Baramidze

Work, clean sports hall.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna takes a look.

Iryna Baramidze

Haircutter.

Sven

Haircutter.

Clare Toeniskoetter

But she’s not ready to apply for anything yet, until she decides if she’ll stay in Poland.

Iryna Baramidze

Yes, it will be very hard for me. I very —

Clare Toeniskoetter

She tells me that she’s been talking to her husband and mother every day. And it’s clear that she’s still holding out hope —

Iryna Baramidze

Every day, I think maybe tomorrow, I will go to home. Maybe tomorrow I will go to home. But no.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— that maybe the war will end the next day.

 

Almost a week later, on Saturday —

Iryna Baramidze

I know something. In English it’s good morning, good morning, good morning to you. Good morning, good morning, I’m glad to see you.

Clare Toeniskoetter

I meet up with Iryna again. She started volunteering for a few hours a day, helping other refugees who are just arriving at the Krakow train station.

Clare Toeniskoetter

I think I’m OK.

Clare Toeniskoetter

I take the tram there with her for her second day. She’s only about a week or so ahead of the people arriving, but she feels she already has something she can offer.

Iryna Baramidze

Some people don’t speak Poland or English, and I can help. I know some information about Poland, and second, I can stay in the room and just sit. I must something do.

 

Clare Toeniskoetter

We get to the train station.

[Baby Crying]

Clare Toeniskoetter

It feels like the border a week earlier. But now, we’re three hours from the border, and there are still massive crowds.

Clare Toeniskoetter

I’m in the train station, and there’s a big poster that says, smaller cities in Poland mean greater possibilities of accommodation, lower cost of living, and better chance to find a job. Big cities in Poland are already overcrowded. Don’t be afraid to go to smaller towns. They are peaceful, have good infrastructure and are well-adapted.

Clare Toeniskoetter

At this point, on March 12, 1.5 million Ukrainian refugees have arrived in Poland. The mayors of Krakow and Warsaw have both announced that they are full and that they’ll need to start sending people to these smaller towns and to other E.U. countries.

Iryna Baramidze

[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Clare Toeniskoetter

Here’s Iryna now in the yellow volunteer vest.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna’s shift is at a rest station where people can lay down for a few hours and hopefully sleep before their next train, bus or drive.

Iryna Baramidze

I’m check some bed free or not free, how many we have free bed.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She keeps a list of about 70 beds, and cleans them whenever someone leaves.

She hands out tea and coffee.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Did they all go on the bus to Berlin?

Iryna Baramidze

I assume bus or train. I don’t know.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She helps refugees connect with volunteers who have come to the station offering help. She knows how scared she was, and she helps people understand that they are safe.

Speaker

All of them want to work or just one person?

Clare Toeniskoetter

But mostly, people just want to ask her about the big questions —

Iryna Baramidze

Can find job in Facebook. They have some group.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— questions she herself hasn’t been able to answer. Where do I go? Where do I live? How do I get a job?

 

Towards the end of her shift —

Clare Toeniskoetter

You’re driving to Italy?

Iryna Baramidze

Yeah. No, not me. My friend.

Clare Toeniskoetter

OK.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna meets another volunteer from Italy.

Speaker

Babushka. Lina Babushka.

Iryna Baramidze

Galina?

[Interposing Voices]

Speaker

Yeah, Lina, but she told me, Lina.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She’s come to help an 81-year-old woman who’s traveling alone. The woman has been stuck at the train station for two days.

Speaker

So I take her to home.

Iryna Baramidze

OK.

Speaker

I’m trying to help you. So when you have someone that wants to go to Italy, call me, and —

Clare Toeniskoetter

At this point, the volunteer clearly thinks Iryna is just another volunteer, and she’s letting her know that she can be a resource if Iryna encounters people who need help getting to Italy.

Iryna Baramidze

OK. Maybe you can help me.

Speaker

Yeah.

Iryna Baramidze

Maybe you know some information. If I will go to Italy, and I will make registration, for —

Speaker

For you or for refugees?

Iryna Baramidze

For me and my son.

Speaker

But you —

Clare Toeniskoetter

She is a refugee.

Speaker

OK, OK. Oh, I don’t know. I’m sorry. OK. So —

Clare Toeniskoetter

And then, she realizes Iryna is talking about herself.

Speaker

And you want to go to Italy.

Iryna Baramidze

I don’t know, but —

Speaker

You don’t know.

Iryna Baramidze

I don’t know, but maybe some official information in Italy?

Speaker

Yeah, what do you have to wonder?

Iryna Baramidze

If I will do this registration, will I have medical card —

Speaker

In Italy?

Iryna Baramidze

In Italy.

Speaker

Yes, you will have everything.

Iryna Baramidze

My son can go to school?

Speaker

Yes, you can go to school. He can go to school.

Iryna Baramidze

I can find job official?

Speaker

Yes, official. We have a few —

Clare Toeniskoetter

After she asks her questions, Iryna turns to me.

Iryna Baramidze

What do you think about this woman from Italy?

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yeah. It seems like she could help you if you want to go to Italy.

Iryna Baramidze

Yes, but I’m afraid. It’s very hard. [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Clare Toeniskoetter

She says that even in a place like this, where it seems like everyone is trying to help, it’s hard to know who to trust.

 

When we leave the train station that day —

Iryna Baramidze

Poland now has a lot of people from Ukraine. Very, very, very —

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna has decided she won’t stay in Poland.

Iryna Baramidze

I must go to country where not a lot of Ukrainian people —

Clare Toeniskoetter

And that she needs to go somewhere else, where there will be less competition for jobs and housing. But beyond this —

Iryna Baramidze

— France, maybe after tomorrow, it will be in Norway again. I don’t know, really. I don’t know nothing.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She still seems totally lost.

 

And then, on Monday, March 14, I get a text message from Iryna. Her best friend, also named Iryna, has also recently arrived in Poland from Ukraine. She followed Iryna to Krakow, and together, just like that, they’ve decided to go to Germany.

[Beeping]

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna? Can you hear me?

Clare Toeniskoetter

I rushed over to meet her at the crowded train station.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna! Iryna!

Iryna Baramidze

I’m so sorry. Please.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Oh, it’s OK. Don’t worry.

Iryna Baramidze

I sit here. Internet not work.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yes, yes.

Iryna Baramidze

Oh, I’m so sorry.

Clare Toeniskoetter

No, no problem!

Iryna Baramidze

I’m just afraid. Some people can me say about ticket to train to Germany.

Clare Toeniskoetter

I find her in front of the information booth for Ukrainian refugees, where she usually volunteers. Yuri is home with Sven and Gosia.

Iryna Baramidze

If I will take tickets in this class —

Clare Toeniskoetter

Trains to Germany from Poland are free for Ukrainians, but they aren’t guaranteed seats, so she’s waiting for a batch of free tickets to be released at 2:45 p.m. She’s already been there for 4 and 1/2 hours to make sure she gets them.

Clare Toeniskoetter

You have your ticket?

Iryna Baramidze

No, I must wait 15 minutes.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Ah, OK. And what time is the train?

Iryna Baramidze

23 o’clock.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Tonight.

Iryna Baramidze

Yes, yes, tonight.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Wow. OK.

Clare Toeniskoetter

I’m shocked when I learned she’s planning to leave that night.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Where do you go in Germany?

Iryna Baramidze

I don’t know.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Really?

Iryna Baramidze

Kauffmann or like this. I don’t know.

Clare Toeniskoetter

OK, but you know you have a place to sleep in Germany?

Iryna Baramidze

No. I don’t have.

Clare Toeniskoetter

You’re just going to Germany?

Iryna Baramidze

Yeah. Yes.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And that she has no idea where she’ll stay.

Speaker

[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Clare Toeniskoetter

At 2:45, she goes back up to the information booth.

Iryna Baramidze

[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

Clare Toeniskoetter

And they hand her the tickets.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And this is the ticket itself. Yeah.

Iryna Baramidze

It’s ticket. Today, 14.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yeah.

Iryna Baramidze

14 today.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yes, yes, yes.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Leaving that night —

Clare Toeniskoetter

March 14, yes.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— to Hanover.

Iryna Baramidze

But it’s near Sven’s city, I think. Essen.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Essen. And you’ve never been to Germany before.

Iryna Baramidze

No. Never.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And why Essen? You have someone in Essen now or no?

Iryna Baramidze

Because Sven’s from Essen. Maybe it will not Essen, maybe another city.

Clare Toeniskoetter

But you don’t know where you’ll sleep.

Iryna Baramidze

No, I don’t know. No, where — right, I know. I will sleep on train.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Sven is from Essen. And I know that over the past few days, he has been telling Iryna he could try to help her find a place, and maybe even a job in Germany, if that’s what she decided on. And he warned that because so many refugees were coming now, things might start filling up there, but Iryna hadn’t told him or Gosia that she’d decided on Germany. I try to understand why Germany, and why now, with no plan in place, nowhere to sleep that night.

Iryna Baramidze

Because in Poland, it’s full of Ukrainian people.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Right.

Iryna Baramidze

Very full.

And I hope that they will have in Germany better jobs. I don’t know nothing, really. I don’t know. It’s only my thinking. I think like this, but what’s real? I don’t know.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And did you consider Italy after meeting Sofia two days ago?

Iryna Baramidze

No.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Why no?

Iryna Baramidze

I don’t know why. We want to be near Ukraine.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yes.

Iryna Baramidze

Ukraine, Poland, and after this, Germany.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yes.

Iryna Baramidze

I don’t know nothing, really. I will see. I will see.

 

Clare Toeniskoetter

Like the morning two weeks earlier, when she woke up and decided she needed to leave Kyiv for Poland, today, Iryna woke up and finally realized she needs to make her next move. It was like a switch flipped.

Iryna Baramidze

So we must do something, and we will go to Germany.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yes. Yes.

Iryna Baramidze

OK, we can go?

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yes.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna still has a few hours before the train leaves.

She buys a gift for Sven and Gosia — some tea. She asks for the best of the best.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Two minutes?

Iryna Baramidze

Mm-hmm.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And then, we take the tram back to their apartment, where she’ll tell them that she’s leaving and pack her bags.

Clare Toeniskoetter

One of the reasons you said you’ve stayed in Poland for so long is because you’ve had hope that the war will end soon, and you could go home soon. Do you think deciding to go to Germany means you’ve, in some ways, given up that hope?

Iryna Baramidze

No, I every day hope that I will go to home soon. Every day. I don’t know. Maybe after five minutes, we will send messages it’s all finished, and they will go to home, I will not go to Germany. We will see. We will see. I don’t know.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And what emotion do you feel right now?

Iryna Baramidze

Nothing. I don’t feel nothing, really. [INAUDIBLE] some days, four days, maybe five days, I don’t know. And after this, I think I feel something. Not now.

Clare Toeniskoetter

So thank you. Good luck.

Iryna Baramidze

Thank you very much. Thank you. Bye-bye.

 

Clare Toeniskoetter

Six days later —

Clare Toeniskoetter

Hi! Iryna?

Iryna Baramidze

Hi, hi, Clare. Hi.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Hi.

Clare Toeniskoetter

I catch up with Iryna over the phone.

Iryna Baramidze

How are you?

Clare Toeniskoetter

I’m OK. How are you?

Iryna Baramidze

Um, I don’t know. Because I have a lot, a lot, a lot of travel situation. I don’t know, really.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She tells me that a lot had happened since she left the relative stability of Sven and Gosia’s apartment.

Iryna Baramidze

We go to Germany. In Germany, we don’t have flat, room, nothing. We ask some people what we must do. They give the address — address camp.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Sven wasn’t able to organize a home for Iryna, Yuri and other Iryna’s family in Germany. And instead, they went to a big refugee camp.

Iryna Baramidze

Mm-hmm. We come to this camp. All people use one toilet, one shower.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And after two nights, she decided that she didn’t want to stay there. So they got on another train.

Iryna Baramidze

We see this train go to Switzerland, and we think, maybe go to this country. OK, go.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And almost by accident, they wound up in Basel, Switzerland.

Iryna Baramidze

We go to policeman, ask what we must do. Again, he give map. We must go to camp.

Clare Toeniskoetter

— where they were sent to another big refugee camp.

Iryna Baramidze

And we stayed two days. And yesterday, our government sent us in another camp.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And then, the Swiss government sent them to a third camp.

Iryna Baramidze

It’s some village in the mountain.

Clare Toeniskoetter

In the mountains, overlooking the small 4,000-person village of Egerkingen.

Clare Toeniskoetter

And that’s where you stay now?

Iryna Baramidze

Yeah, yes, yes. And very good. I think we’re lucky, very lucky. Yes.

 

Clare Toeniskoetter

Now, a week later, Iryna’s still living at this refugee center. It’s a former psychiatric hospital with about 200 beds. It opened for Ukrainian refugees in mid-March. She says it’s comfortable. She has a private room with two bunk beds — for her, Yuri and two people from other Iryna’s family.

They get about $10 a day to buy food. Iryna spends her days with Yuri, and cooking with other Iryna’s sister. And she’s still volunteering, however she can. An official from the camp tells me that Iryna has taken it upon herself to organize a cleaning schedule for all the residents. But —

Clare Toeniskoetter

Will you work in Switzerland?

Iryna Baramidze

I don’t know nothing, really. They don’t give me any information.

Clare Toeniskoetter

She’s no closer to finding a job or school for Yuri. He’s taking some classes online, but he’s not making friends at the camp. He won’t talk to the other kids.

Iryna Baramidze

I move. Don’t worry about my life and about my son. But I of course worry about my family in Kyiv. Every day, we speak, send a message. Every day.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna calls her husband and her mom back in Kyiv. After we got off the phone, she sent me a video of a bomb and said, it’s today. Near my house.

 

It’s been three weeks since I met Iryna. And in many ways, so much has changed for her. She’s gone from relying on a loose network of volunteers to a bureaucratic system of government aid. And in navigating this, she’s had to start over, again and again.

But in another way, nothing has changed for her. Her life and her family are still in Ukraine, and she is still in limbo, waiting to get back to them.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Iryna, when I talked to you the day you left for Germany, you told me that you weren’t allowing yourself to feel any emotions. Now that you’re planning to stay in Switzerland, have you allowed yourself to feel anything?

Iryna Baramidze

No. No, no. I know I must stay in this place to save our life.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Mm-hmm.

Iryna Baramidze

I know that after some time, all will be OK. I know this. I must only wait, only wait. And I hope all will be OK.

Clare Toeniskoetter

Yes. Me, too.

Iryna Baramidze

Of course. Yes.

 

 

Clare Toeniskoetter

In a statement, O.R.S., which provides assistance to refugees in Switzerland, cited the enormous challenge Ukrainians face trying to integrate into Swiss life. They said they have started searching for more permanent housing for Iryna and Yuri, and that they expect her to have the chance to find work.

 

 

Sabrina Tavernise

Here’s what else you need to know today. Russia signaled a possible scaling-back of its war aims in Ukraine. On Friday, Russia’s defense ministry said in a statement that the goals of the, quote, “first stage of the operation” had been, quote, “mainly accomplished,” and that it would now focus on securing Ukraine’s eastern Donbass region, where Russia-backed separatists have been fighting for eight years. It was not clear whether the statement was sincere or simply a strategic misdirection, but it amounted to the most direct acknowledgment since the war began that Russia was having difficulty taking full control of Ukraine.

Joe Biden

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Sabrina Tavernise

And on Saturday —

Archived Recording (Joe Biden)

Rather than breaking Ukrainian resolve, Russia’s brutal tactics have strengthened the resolve.

Sabrina Tavernise

President Biden ended his three-day trip to Europe with an impassioned speech in Warsaw denouncing Putin.

Archived Recording (Joe Biden)

A dictator bent on rebuilding an empire will never erase the people’s love for liberty.

Sabrina Tavernise

In the speech, Biden seemed to call for the ouster of the Russian leader.

Archived Recording (Joe Biden)

For god’s sake, this man cannot remain in power.

 

Sabrina Tavernise

That’s it for The Daily. I’m Sabrina Tavernise. See you tomorrow.

 

Yuri and Iryna Baramidze waiting for a train in Krakow, Poland. After the bombing started in Kyiv, she said she felt that she had to get out.
Credit...Clare Toeniskoetter/The New York Times